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IdiocyInAction 4 days ago root parent prev next [—]. The US started this already by imposing tariffs on European goods like steel. Plenty of US people like and make open source software.
You don't need to be worried. I think the main "drawback" of LibreOffice is that it is not widely used. If you receive a docx document and it formats funny, or vice versa common on LibreOffice and not entirely their fault , it's on you for using weird software, or penny-pinching on a MS Office license.
If it becomes common, people just accept the minor incompatibility and move on. It will also get better as funds and attention flow to these projects. As far as I'm concerned, LibreOffice lacks no features I would remotely consider using. It's like when Windows was the sole mainstream OS, it wasn't an excuse "oh but I'm on Mac and can't run this".
Now Macs are mainstream, and Linux is not, it's still in a "weird nerdy" corner. But not so if it just gets more widely used it's happening, just slowly. I think the situation parent writes about is more likely and more informative.
Namely that there are places with two major-enough platforms such that everyone has to accommodate both e. I use it all the time just fine, and set the default format to. XLS and. Then, the next version, LibreOffice has that feature.
So, great move by Schleswig-Holstein and also very strategic - right to repair, right to not be held over a barrel by a monopoly, etc.. Let's hope it catches on. And now that I'm writing about this, I realize I haven't sent LibreOffice a donation in too long, so I'm off to do that now At least I can unzip a. I'll give it another look - thx for the tip! But the funny thing is that Libreoffice has better compatibility with documents composed with older versions of Word than newer versions of Office do.
When Libreoffice loads an old MS Office document badly, people gripe about whoever made the decision to install Libreoffice. Zigurd 4 days ago parent prev next [—]. Microsoft office does more. If I were to produce a book with proper front matter and index, glued together from multiple chapter documents, I would choose Word.
But Microsoft Office does not work collaboratively as well as Google Apps, which were born cloud-based. Microsoft Office is laggy and fails completely with large numbers of collaborators i. This is the kind of story that would have been cheered on on Slashdot twenty years ago. But here we are in and a major organization having the temerity to not pay the Microsoft tax is newsworthy. This is not what a free market looks like. It's the kind of story that was cheered on on Slashdot.
Multiple times. I can't count the number of times I've seen "Some German [agency municipality state] [is planning to adopt has adopted cancels adoption reverses adoption] of [StarOffice OpenOffice Libreoffice Linux]". I think it's some kind of meme, the product of peculiar German administrative politics, or a result of vigorous Free Software activism in Germany because I don't see such headlines nearly as often for any other locality.
And when it succeeds you don't usually hear about it. In Catalonia, most of the universities also use Ubuntu. The Ayuntamiento uses LibreOffice and maybe also Ubuntu in some parts - and for the most part, it all just works. It was the same in Zaragoza too.
You only notice it when they accidentally send a. This is mostly because the "Munich case" was a star example for a long time. Also, star division, the company that started star office, is from Germany. That's why Germany is a great place that would adopt open source more, because they have prominent "own" projects like Suse Linux or that office suite. Now, nothing much has come of that in that way but the German university I briefly studied at, did use Suse, of course.
One major competitor who's also a massive corporation and has an even more questionable approach to handling user data. So while it might not be a pure "MS tax" anymore, in a way there still is a corporate monopoly tax. Why is it that nobody can compete? These days it's more and more the lack of online collaborative tools that is a problem. How many different implementations of basic office software do we need? There's no point having hundreds of companies independently building the same thing.
Putting all your eggs into one basket is a bad approach for pretty much anything, particularly when that basket is one that has its own monetary interests as its main motivator. You want valid alternatives to keep the products offered competitive, and the competitors honest, as entrenched monopolies are rarely conductive to innovation and often extremely opposed to consumer interests.
Arainach 4 days ago parent prev next [—]. Companies choosing the best option rather than the cheapest option is perfectly compatible with a free market. MS Office has been designed for decades to be easy to manage and support and has plenty of training resources available.
LibreOffice still has plenty of rough edges in those areas. As an individual user, maybe those are worth overlooking for you. At the scale of a company where time is money, it's much more important to get something reliable.
Also, an unregulated free market always turns into a monopoly or at best an oligopoly eventually. It's been shown time and time again. ThinkBeat 4 days ago parent prev next [—]. In my personal opinion OpenOffice is not a suitable alternative. Plus, a huge set of templates are available for free or for purchase. It seems ok for most things. Much easier for people to adopt coming from Office than Open Office.
I think it's misguided. For instance Writer custom fields UI is way too hard to use to the point i'm not sure it's not a bug. You can't make people work with that no matter how trained they are. Kjeldahl 4 days ago prev next [—]. And frankly, Office is probably overkill for most of the actual needs of users. Having said that, I tried making a three page brochure a year ago, using the most recent LibreOffice release at the time. Just a mix of some screenshots and paragraphs of text.
It was just too slow to be useable. On the same computer, Google Docs running in the browser was able to handle the same brochure without any noticeable slowdowns of any kind.
That's a strong indication that LibreOffice is just As much as I want to support libreOffice, my experience has been the same as yours. Its like there are fps drops or slight pauses before many actions. It is quite irritating. Laggy, with a garish UI straight out of This whole thread seems to love the principle of LibreOffice, but ignores the fact that actually using it is a slog and a half.
Seems to be a running trend in Germany to move toward open software. Tangentially related to this: The city of Munich has flip-flopped between their own version of linux and windows [0]. ChuckNorris89 4 days ago parent next [—].
Rinse and repeat. Sure, it has nothing to do with overall better UX that the actual users of these computers require, it's all corruption. Better UI? Ten years ago, yes. Now the UI in Office is a disaster.
And yes, some german politicians are very sensitive when money starts to flow. Whether it's a disaster or not it's subjective. I think you'll find many people prefer how it is now, including the useful new features like xlookup. Either way, it's what people are used to, and changing everyone's well established memory will be very difficult and expensive.
This doesn't just apply to Office software, it applies to whole operating systems and is what keeps the MS monopoly entrenched to this day. This is the same argument that people have used for the last 20 years of "this year is the year for Linux on the Desktop! I don't think it was true then or now. I suppose you could claim those are the fault of MS popularity, but I claim it's the result of volunteers not having financial incentive to add support for the random hardware that was in my computer.
I was used to Windows, but I'm not using Linux only because I didn't buy a system for it. It was true back then and remains true to this day even with smartdevices taking over and slowly pushing desktops out of the educaton sector. Anybody who grew up since the 80s and had some kind of "IT related" education in school, most likely got said education on MS systems with MS software.
People expect you to know your way around Word, Excel and Powerpoint because that's the software that's taught in schools and forced occupational trainings even at the lowest levels. At the higher levels you often gonna need a long list MS training certifications to even be considered taken seriously.
It's particularly the entrenchment in the education sector that makes it near impossible to change anything about this. People are getting "primed" on MS in school like children are getting primed into religions by their parents; There is pretty much no choice involved for them. I agree completely about being primed, but I'm saying it's not completely true. I have many tech friends that gave up on Linux and moved to OS X.
I would claim these moves are unrelated to Microsoft. At least Office does proper kerning. Edit: I don't get the downvote. Last week I spent 10 minutes of a meeting waiting for the presenter to apply some fix to his LibreOffice presentation because font kerning and sizes were corrupt in the full screen view. I would love to ditch MS completely and use LibreOffice for all my work, but it has its weak spots.
I usually export to pdf and present it like that partly because I'm often presenting on Windows machines. Yeah, pretty sure I was hearing about German cities switching every few months for the past ten years or so. Ok, so it's " A German State" Schleswig-Holstein , not " The German State" which would be the federal government - of course this is big news too, but the title is a little bit misleading PoignardAzur 4 days ago parent next [—]. Oh, wow, that's super underwhelming.
The title is incredibly misleading. This is a great move! I hope they will still have money left to train all teachers and office staff properly. Believe it or not, many German teachers have started using digital technology for real only in , when the pandemic first hit.
They are now totally entrenched with the Microsoft way of doing things. They know all the MS quirks and how to navigate around them. Free software alternatives to MS products have different quirks that will need different workarounds. I think right now this is the biggest reason people avoid LibreOffice.
Also, some action must be taken about MS behavior. They are the same company they were in the 90's. It is easy to find commit messages in LO explaining things like 'this is what MSO does but not what the specification says'. They recently change the algorithm the justifies text in MSO and it is not explained in the specification. So, even a simple text file without any especial formatting may not be viewed correctly with anything but MSO.
This is ridiculous. The use of such a format should be forbidden for governments. ISO shouldn't have ratified it. This being the government, they have the power to flip this around. Why invest in compatibility with Microsoft Office when you can use the good old native OpenOffice formats instead? When the state is working in LibreOffice, there's no need to save files in Microsoft's format anymore. Makes sense. That would be even better. I think that OO's feature set is still limited in comparison to LO, but they are making a lot of progress and being web-native seems like a huge advantage as well.
They have a list of costumers but I really don't know of any large-scale implementation. Of course, harder cases break on both. So, even combining both, something I've tried to do, is not enough to achieve good compatility with MSO. MS Office was so much more functional and nicer to use than libreoffice when I last checked.
That is possible. But apparently, people in Germany are looking for software based on attributes that reach beyond the elemental metrics like "nice to use" or "supports corporate integration". They might care more about the ability to audit the software's behavior and to easily make changes where necessary. They might also like to contribute patches back to the original LibreOffice community because they know that they themselves will benefit from more people reviewing their work and making it better as a result.
Devil's advocate here. Recently my employer large corporate went all in on as it is now called Microsoft Teams, SharePoint online, OneDrive etc. While I have no illusions about Microsoft's business model and motives, the truth is that "it just works" and makes collaboration very easy. Create a team in Teams, add a document which everyone can edit if needed at the same time , click a button, share it with someone outside the team, have a meeting with them, click a button, save the meeting video to OneDrive, click one more button and you're collaborating on a whiteboard.
And all this works fully synchronized on my phone too. As far as I can see from their terrible website LibreOffice does not offer this at all. Maybe Germany, known for being "digitally outdated" by years, will suffer no consequences from that and their basic workflow is still "type document - print it - sign it - fax it".
But it will be a sad day for my productivity when I am forced to switch to LibreOffice. My org does that too for different reasons for years now. It just works is a lie. We also have a lot Apple devices for all our external employees. That doesn't 'just' work as well. Digitally outdated has a complete new dimensions here, even if you add half baked services like Flow on top of it.
There are far more modern alternatives than what MS brings to the table, there are countless alternatives that are better to control and easier to adapt. You could use teams on Linux and while the office integration is nice, it isn't essential at all.
This "collaboration" in the MS cloud is a nightmare to archive or access and some of the APIs are in a beta phase. We killed our fax a long time ago Consider OnlyOffice or the version offered by Collabora with on-line features. I really don't know how good these options are but they exist. It sort of works but has its quirks. The UI is not really smooth, and the whole system could be more stable. I once lost a day's work because of a bug in the writer component.
That was quite discouraging. Does a German state have the ability to audit software or contribute patches? And what would the patches be for? What use-cases do they have that are so unique that they need custom software? The big question is: Is the aim to have the best possible software integration? Or is it about freedom from MS and contributing to open source? If it's software integration, MS is hard to beat. It comes at the price of total dependence. If it's about freedom then going full open source is great.
But the cost in efficiency is huge, since the OSS alternatives will never be as streamlined as MS's stuff. And Germany is unable to find and pay programmers to make Libre Office better? Salaries are part of the problem; there is a very rigid salary structure in Germany's civil service. The salary band in which programmers would fall is OK but not overly attractive. There is very little headroom to pay talented developers a salary that could compete with what they get elsewhere.
At home I use Ubuntu I tried Libreoffice few months ago, for anything non trivial it just sucks compared to Office, years behind. I don't know what kind of documents this German state creates, maybe for them Libreoffice feature are good enough.
And I'm just talking about document creation feature, whole Office collaboration ecosystem is huge and on Windows PCs it works just fine, at least most of the time. What did your check consist of? When a certain document size or complexity is reached, Word apparently starts to behave erratically and even crashes occasionally. Fazel94 3 days ago parent prev next [—]. Everyone should use the thing that costs a lot of money for it to just make sense.
If I can afford to pay for the better experience and I want it badly enough, I will. That's how markets work. I didn't check the latest LO version but I agree. LO shines on import export but the UI lags, the functionalities are limited. Even macros are weird compared to VBA which is sad. FOSS community needs to gather up on this. And what's worse, lot of functionaly that appears to exist turns out to be broken when you actually try to use it. Basic things like pivot tables, conditional formatting or automatic data import at regular intervals from a file are ridiculously broken in LO, and have been so for many years.
Feels as if no-one's actually using it beyond a simple document viewer. Hacker News new past comments ask show jobs submit.
German state planning to switch 25, PCs to LibreOffice documentfoundation. Tijdreiziger 4 days ago root parent prev next [—] The modern equivalent is a tablet with its corresponding type cover. DocTomoe 4 days ago root parent next [—] Some people are unhappy with the results. GekkePrutser 4 days ago root parent prev next [—] Uhh "users can't install software themselves" is how things are supposed to be.
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